Purported Insider Posts Details On Production Interference

Reddit user egoshoppe has posted the following at Reddit with regards to The Rise of Skywalker:

Here’s what I’ve been told from a source that worked on TROS.

Since shortly after release weekend, I’ve been corresponding with someone who worked closely on the production of TROS and works for one of the major companies I cannot disclose here. I have verified the source to my satisfaction. To protect the source, I am rewording what we spoke about over the last two weeks and am submitting it to you in bullet point format I have written based on what they told me. The TLDR is that they were upset with the final product of TROS and wanted to share their perspective on how it went down and where it went wrong.

The leakers for TROS had an agenda and are tied to Disney directly. My source confessed that they have an agenda as well in that they struggle with ignoring what’s been happening to someone who they think doesn’t deserve it.

JJ always treated everyone on and offset with respect so my source’s agenda is that what Disney has done to JJ and how much they screwed him over should be something people are at least aware of, whether you like him as a filmmaker or not.

Disney was one of the studios who were in that Bad Robot bidding war last year. Disney never had much interest in BR as a company but they did in JJ because they saw WB (who JJ went with in the end) as a major threat.

JJ is very successful at bringing franchises back like Mission Impossible, Star Trek and Star Wars. WB is struggling with DC and aside from Wonder Woman, DC is still seen as a bit of a joke in its current state by the GA.

WB wants Abrams for some DC projects. My source said that this generation’s Star Wars is the MCU, and Marvel’s biggest threat is a well operational DC. They want to keep DC in the limbo that they’re in right now. Abrams jumpstarting that franchise with something like a successful, audience-pleasing Superman movie makes them nervous. Their goal is to make JJ look bad to potential investors/shareholders.

My source mentioned this shortly after the premiere: “The TROS we saw last night was not the TROS we thought we worked on”.

JJ was devastated and blindsided by this. He’s been feeling down over the last 6 months because of some of the ridiculous demands Disney had that changed his movie’s story. While the scenes were shot, a lot of the changes were made in post-production and the audio was rerecorded and altered. My source said they’ve never seen anything like this happen before. He’s the director and he wasn’t in the know about what they were doing behind his back.

Apparently, JJ felt threatened over the month leading up to the premiere.

Rian was never meant to do IX despite some rumors that he was.

JJ was brought back by Iger, not KK. Disney insisted on more fan service, less controversy.

JJs original agreement when he signed on was indicating he would have way more creative control than he did on TFA. It became evident this wasn’t the case only a couple of weeks into shooting when the trouble with meddling started.

JJ wanted to do some scenes he thought were important but Disney shut it down citing budgetary reasons.

May 2019: JJ argued that those scenes were crucial. He had to let go of one of the scenes. The other scene he insisted on was approved at first. He did reshoots and additional photography in July. The new scene was shot at BR in October.

The “ending that will blow your mind” was a part of this. Older actors were included like Hayden, Ewan and Samuel and anyone who wasn’t animated. The force ghosts weren’t meant to be voices because they shot that footage on camera. The actors were in costumes. Rey was supposed to be surrounded by the force ghosts to serve as sort of a barrier between her and the Sith surrounding them.

My source thinks but can’t 100% confirm that this is because of China. It’s an office talk of sorts. Some VFX people claimed they got a list of approved shades of blue they could use on the Luke force ghosts. Cutting this out was when the bad blood turned into a nightmare for JJ because the movie he was making was suddenly unrecognizable to him in almost every way.

My source knows JJ well enough to know that he’s just not the yelling type but apparently in a meeting he yelled something along the lines of “Why don’t you just put ‘directed and written by Lucasfilm’ then?” My source wasn’t present for that exchange but knows some who were.

Disney demanded they shoot some scenes that would have things in it for merchandise. “They fly now” is one of them. It’s also JJ’s least favorite scene. At a November screening of a 2:37 cut, he cringed, groaned and laughed when the scene was on.

My source says that JJ was most likely not joking when he said “you’re right” in the interview where they asked him about TROS criticism.

JJ’s original early November cut was 3 hours 2 minutes long.

In January, JJ suggested that they turn this into two films. My source told me this well before Terrio mentioned it in an interview a couple of days ago. When Disney said no, JJ was content with making this 3 hours long.

Over a period of 9 months JJ started realizing that one by one his ideas and whole scenes were being thrown out the window or entirely altered by people who have “no business meddling with the creatives”.

They were not on the same page when it came to creative decisions and it became obvious that Disney had an agenda in addition to wanting to please shareholders. Disney could “afford messing up IX for the sake of the bigger picture” when it came to protecting things unrelated to IX.

The cut JJ eventually and hesitantly agreed to in early December was 2:37 minutes long. It wasn’t the cut we saw which he wouldn’t have approved of (and which is 2:22 long). Apart from the force ghosts, there were other crucial and emotional scenes missing. The cut they released looked “chopped and taped back together with weak scotch tape” (JJ’s words).

The movie opened with Rey’s training. Her first scene with Rose was shortly after Rey damaged BB-8 during the training. Rose made a silly joke about how Poe is going to kill her for damaging BB-8. There was a moment where Rey took a minute to process what just happened when she saw that vision during training. She looked distressed and worried. The next scene was noise as the Falcon was landing and Rey runs over there. Those two women who kissed at the end were visible in this shot and they were holding hands. One of them ran towards the Falcon as it landed.

Kylo on Mustafar scene was 2 mins longer. There was a moment where Kylo seemed a bit dizzy and his vision was shown as blurry for a second. Almost as if time half-stopped while everyone in the background was slow-mo fighting. Kylo hears Vader’s breathing, then shakes his head and time goes back to moving at a normal pace and he jumps right back into the battle (the scene from the trailer where he knocks that guy down which did end up in the movie later).

They cut some of the scenes from the lightspeed skipping segment. Some of the planets that were cut were Kashyyyk, Naboo, and Kamino.

The scene where the tie fighters are chasing them through the iceberg – those corridors were inspired by a video game JJ used to play in the 90s called Rebel Assault 2 (the third level in the game with the tunnels on Endor specifically).

Jannah was confirmed to be Lando’s daughter.

Rey not only healed Kylo’s face scar but she killed Kylo when she healed Ben. Kylo ceased to exist when Rey healed him. My source mentioned that some people assume it was Han Solo who healed him but that isn’t true and that wasn’t Han Solo. That was Leia using her own memories as well as Ben’s to create a physical manifestation of his own thoughts to nudge him towards what he needed to do. That was her own way of communicating that with him. And it wasn’t possible without her dying in the process. She made the ultimate sacrifice for her son and this flew over people’s heads with the Disney cut.

The late November cut (the last cut JJ approved of) had scenes with Rose and Rey still. JJ wanted to give her a more meaningful arc. Disney felt that that was too risky too. My source mentioned that Chris Terrio said that it was because of the Leia scenes but this is only partially true because she had four other scenes including two with Rey/Daisy that Leia was not in.

Finn wanting to tell Rey something was always meant to be force sensitivity. In the 3 hour cut, it’s explicitly stated. There was a moment when Jannah and he were running on top of that star destroyer and Finn needed to unlock or move something and he force-moved it and acted surprised when it happened. This was replaced with a CGI’d BB-8 fixing whatever he needed to fix on there.

Babu Frik was nearly cut because some execs at Disney thought he would be the new Jar Jar. They are really surprised that people love him this much. He was JJ’s idea and was created in collaboration with some artists and puppeteers. The personality was all JJ.

There were a bunch of scenes where Rey and Kylo (separately) went through quiet moments of reflection to deal with what they were going through. On her part, her going through the realization that there’s something sinister about her past. Him going through regret and remorse but trying to shut it out. My source said that the Kylo scenes were especially amazing because of Adam’s performance and how he managed to portray that inner turmoil. It provided much more context and added deeper meaning to both his battle with Rey and the final redemption arc at the end. It didn’t happen so suddenly and it was more structured than what we got.

The Kylo/Rey scene where he dies was at least 4 minutes longer with more dialogue. Ben was always supposed to die. Source also added that if he wasn’t, then that might’ve been in an earlier draft which they haven’t read. The first draft they read included Lando (the first few didn’t). The Reylo kiss and Ben’s death was not part of the reshoots. It was a part of the re-editing. Even the cut that JJ thought was coming out earlier this month had a longer version of that scene than what was shown in the theatrical cut.

JJ was against the Reylo kiss (or Reylo in general). This was Disney’s attempt to please both sides of the fandom.

JJ was not happy with where TLJ took the story. The final result is a mix of that story and the story told by Disney and whoever they tried to impress (“certainly not the fans”). JJ is gutted over the final result. Star Wars means a lot to him. He had to sacrifice large chunks of the story in TFA but he was promised more creative control on TROS and instead the leash they had him on was only tightened as time went by. A source said that this is the one franchise and the one piece of his work that he didn’t want to mess up and instead it turned into his worst nightmare. When he found out that he was blindsided with the cut they presented, he said “what the fuck??” when Kylo was fighting the Knights of Ren at the end and the Williams music that was used for it was not what he wanted at all. He seemed to think it was out of place.

JJ’s cut still exists and “will always exist”. We most likely will never see it unless “someone accidentally leaks it.”

Ok, so there you have it. If there are questions, I will try to follow up with my source but it’s up to them if they want to share more so I cannot guarantee an answer.

Edit: I forgot one thing that the source wanted included, concerning FinnPoe in TROS:

The source asked about FinnPoe after seeing Oscar Isaac’s comment about how Disney didn’t want it to be a thing. This is true. JJ fought to make this happen. This is why Oscar is blaming Disney. It’s not just a random throwaway comment. He knows for a fact that it was Disney because these discussions happened. The main cast is insanely close with JJ and are just as pissed, though seemingly more outspoken about it than JJ. During TFA, Disney was hesitant to hire John Boyega because a woman was front and center so they deemed that risky enough so bringing in a male lead who’s black made them nervous. JJ fought to make that happen for about nine months before getting approval. The same issue came up when JJ fought to have Finn&Poe in TROS but he lost that battle as he lost many creative battles for this film. Many people, JJ included, came to the realization during this production that the story really is told by shareholders/investors instead of the creatives or anyone at Disney specifically. He tried to make a lot of things happen and was shut down because of this. They had him on a leash and many blame TLJ for the stricter creative approach.

Down in the comments, egoshoppe posts the following:

Speaking for myself, not the source:

The Story Group had 10 months with Arndt and didn’t get very far. JJ and Kasdan had very little time and still made a very successful movie, even with stuff like Harrison breaking his leg and JJ breaking his back. This seemed to be the start of the rift, with Pablo for one publicly shading TFA.

Then you have Rian, who was more deferential to the SG and moved close to them, met with them weekly as he wrote. After TLJ, Kiri Hart left LFL in Jan 2019. Stephen Feder, her replacement, left in June. He was replaced by Michelle Rejwan, who worked with JJ at Bad Robot for 10 years. Now Kiri and Stephen work for Rian at T-Street.

That’s the LFL divide in a nutshell, as I personally see them.

Maryann said that they were cutting on set due to pressure from KK, that’s in one of her latest interviews. She also said that Disney took the cut away from her on November 25, that’s the last she saw it or worked on it.

egoshoppe answered some questions from other users:

What kind of vetting did you do for this source?

In terms of what the source says, all I’m doing is passing it along pretty much as I got it. You take it for what it’s worth to you.

In terms of who the source is, I’m absolutely confident that they worked on the film. I’m not going to go into it more than that, but it was what I would call hard proof.

Does he know if a script was ever actually on ebay?

I didn’t ask them that, good question though.

Does he know when the kiss was added to the script? Was it filmed in a reshoot or filmed as-is?

From what they have said, it was a script level mandate that JJ supposedly wasn’t happy with. I don’t think it was part of the reshoots, that I know of, from what they have said. The scene itself was very much cut down, though.

How were the leaks intended to mess up JJ’s movie? Simply by spoiling the movie and lowering interest?

I think having an entire movie leak 3-4 months out is probably JJ’s worst nightmare. When the TFA call sheets leaked, it was a disgruntled employee laid off from LFL over Harrison’s injury. This is a much worse leak than that, but I’m guessing a similar motive. That’s my speculation.

How does he rate the prospect of the story coming out more fully and more openly in future? Any tell-all books like Igers or a ‘Making of’ book?

I think his motive in coming forward are partially to shake the tree and maybe encourage others to speak up. Hopefully that will happen.

Ok, the source responded to a few of these specifically.

Does he know if a script was ever actually on ebay?

“This was all PR. This literally never happened and JJ and the cast were puzzled why they’d want him to run with that story.”

Does he know when the kiss was added to the script? Was it filmed in a reshoot or filmed as-is?

“This was a request from the get-go but not to that degree. They asked that this be added during the reshoots.”

How were the leaks intended to mess up JJ’s movie? Simply by spoiling the movie and lowering interest?

“No idea. I only know that it came from them. I don’t know why it did. I’d have elaborated if I did know.”

How does he rate the prospect of the story coming out more fully and more openly in future? Any tell-all books like Igers or a ‘Making of’ book?

“Possibly. Doubtful it’ll come from JJ though but you never know.”

That’s a pretty big JJ love fest, so you might keep in mind that your source could be doing a some damage control for Bad Robot.

They were transparent in saying from the top that they were unhappy with how the movie turned out. I can see how someone would take this as PR, I don’t see it that way so much as they have been clear to me they want to set the record straight that the movie as released is not how JJ intended it. They aren’t asking us to please buy a ticket in the second weekend.

Does your source know how the power dynamics work between Disney and LF?

To be honest, it’s been a lot to process in a short amount of time. I hope the thread will lead to more questions being answered, at the same time, there were plenty of areas that couldn’t be delved into because the source didn’t know/wasn’t a part of those issues, or couldn’t say more in a vague enough way for them to be comfortable.

Oh, I’m not saying they’re asking us to buy tickets to TRoS. I’m saying now that TRoS is done, it’s in Bad Robot’s interest to sell us tickets to their next 20 movies whether or not any of them are under the Disney umbrella. JJ’s image is a part of that. Thanks for the quick response though, especially with how fast this thread blew up.

Here’s the thing about the post: as to who this person is, and whether they actually worked on the movie, I can vouch for that. What they asked me to share is what they are comfortable sharing, and I know how reddit is and I know people will doubt it or whatever. I’m posting it as they asked and I hope there will be more to come, from them and from anyone else who wants to speak out. No matter where you are in this fandom, you can see that this movie is rough. It feels like it’s come in for a rough landing, so to speak.

Update from the source:

“They promised him full creative control which turned into minor creative differences so JJ was compromising a lot. But then that turned into extreme control and clearly JJ was blindsided in the end. There was no way for him to know and it was too late to bail by the time he realized what they were doing. Even then, he had no idea the extent of changes they’d make.”

Ok, these are from the source.

What do you mean JJ felt threatened? Like someone was making threats or that his reputation was in danger? Or they were going to replace him?

“His reputation.”

Any word on what Disney truly thought of TLJ? What their reaction was to the box office drop after the opening?

“Clearly they were concerned enough that they went crazy with TROS on the controlling everything side of things.”

Did your source have anything to say about the role of specific people like Alan Horn?

“Alan and JJ do NOT get along. Iger and JJ are somewhat still okay or at least professional. Alan feeds Iger with all sorts of BS and he absolutely hates JJ. He’s a bit more fond of Rian and doesn’t get the hate TLJ got but he’s a business man in the end and that affected how they approached TROS.”

The source said that JJ, while not a “PT guy”, was more into adding PT stuff than Disney was. FWIW.

Thanks to Geeks + Gamers for the tip who are livestreaming about this story right now:

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53 thoughts on “Purported Insider Posts Details On Production Interference

    • Same. Doesn’t really matter to me though. It’s just a curiosity.

      It makes some sense to me if this is intended to be read by Warner Bros.

      “JJ is very successful at bringing franchises back like Mission Impossible, Star Trek and Star Wars.”

      Isn’t Trek shelved? Anyway, if this was such a crucible for JJ maybe he has learned some things and will change his perspectives on what is important to movie franchises, and start to respect the source material.

      Liked by 1 person

  1. “That’s a pretty big JJ love fest, so you might keep in mind that your source could be doing a some damage control for Bad Robot.”

    My thoughts exactly! Not only that, but this exact type of “insider report” to defend Abrams has happened before. I’m pretty sure Itchy reported about it too somewhere on this blog.

    Liked by 1 person

    • I missed that it was already in the related entries. Here: https://disneystarwarsisdumb.wordpress.com/2019/09/26/reddit-user-claims-to-be-former-lucasfilm-employee/

      Just to clarify, I do believe in some of the things that have been reported. It’s no secret that there’s an internal war between Iger & Kennedy and their respective dogs. Despite their differences and disputes, at the end of the day, they both failed Lucas.

      The issue is how it’s being reported (heavily biased and one-sided) and the motive behind it. It invariably comes out as “do you know every controversial issue that has significant outcry attached to it from fandom? Yeah, turns out JJ had nothing to do with it. The poor guy wanted to do exactly what you sought and desired, but he wasn’t allowed to.”

      Liked by 2 people

      • “…they both failed Lucas.”

        And the fans. Not these *eyeroll* Reylos, the ones with good taste in Film-making, writing and passion without worrying what the Corporate Suits think.
        It started with the cancellation of TCW, George’s treatments virtually being ignored (yet the Han Solo Spinoff Film idea was an idea of George’s which lost money) re-branding the EU books, comics, video games, RPGs as “Legends” using characters, vehicles, weapons, planets liberally and as mere glue for the new Disney SW canon, the weak episodes, animation of SW: Rebels, the unoriginal TFA, it’s schizophrenic sequel and an even sillier sequel that didn’t make an effort to not only use George’s superior Sequel Trilogy ideas (which is still not saying much, I find Mortis ridiculous, yet I’d rather THAT than Palpatine being again), yet was brutally sodomized by the Studio the very thing GWL wanted to get away from with ESB onwards.

        Of course there are those of us, like myself, that have little empathy for JJ, he’s getting what he deserves, he whines about the unfairness that some of his decisions for the Sequel Trilogy were ignored/altered yet he, himself is a
        “by the books” Company formula-following Sleaze.

        Why is it THAT big of the deal that George didn’t attend the premiere of this stupid film, I mean famous names from back then like Bogie and Kate Hepburn have been known to skip the premieres of their films, even Natalie Portman was more concerned about finishing her high school exams, than attending the premiere of the flawed, hammy, yet visually impressive The Phantom Menace.

        They appealed to Reylos who have real evidence of misdoings worse than BBL or TFM, little material from George’s treatments, Prequels, the Expanded Universe have been used in TROS, in even good faith. Nadda. Zilch, worthless material like Chewie getting a medal just had to be filmed and added in to THE final cut. Christ almighty!

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        • “yet the Han Solo Spinoff Film idea was an idea of George’s which lost money”

          That’s like saying the sequel trilogy is George’s idea. George was developing an Han Solo movie, that doesn’t mean it was the Han Solo movie that Disney ended up making. And it didn’t lost money because it was an Han Solo movie either. It lost money because of how they’ve decided to do said movie.

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          • I, for one, am thrilled to see Abrams finally getting what he deserves, and people treating Lucas with more respect.

            It’s also highly amusing to see just how FAST all of these parasites have turned on each other. We’re barely two weeks out from the film’s release, and they were doing spin-control and finger-pointing BEFORE it was even released.

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          • “It lost money because of how they’ve decided to do said movie.”

            ^For certain folk, not every person, hardcore fan to casual fan skipped out on the film due to the “poor, out of character/going against how George saw SW” film that is TLJ, or even having Alden Ehrenreich cast instead of Anthony Ingruber or other talented, no way connected to Hollywood Elite like Spielberg young people along with news that the bold, witty pair of Lord/Miller leaving while in production.

            Simply that it was a silly idea, to honest to God, put together a Young Han Solo Live Action film in general.
            I mean if they had cast Anthony Ingruber instead of Alden Ehrenreich as the lead, if it just *had* to be made, then who knows?

            It could have been a decent to serviceable flick (though all I can think of is the trashy Spiderman 3, which is, unsurprising, vehemently hated, which I like, not love as a “Guilty Pleasure” flick)
            Yet with casting him and having be directed and work under a Lord/Miller oriented/written script it *may* have turned out to be an excellent flick turning a bad idea into a good one.

            I would have rather Disney/Kathleen Kennedy OK the “Star Wars Underworld” TV Series with the already written George Lucas approved scripts by its writers than a “Han Solo spinoff”, that series likely had promise, aside from talk that Palpatine would have been written/ is hinted at being the big bad that he is because a woman broke his heart” rumors that had leaked out onto the internet years ago about the TV series.

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          • Of course the Sequel Trilogy or the idea of making SW Episodes 10-12 where George ideas and in a sense Disney said that the one time put off, unwritten, “I won’t direct/produce SW Ep. 7-9 to 12, nor will I allow anyone else too” Sequel Trilogy would finally be greenlit, coming soon.

            Yet they went out without a whimper, not only where George’s Sequel Trilogy treatments/ideas virtually ignored/unused which did have an interesting air to them, there was absolutely no interest in using any Star Wars EU material to appeal to EU fans, not over the OOT Purists/Lucas Loyalist/Movie+TV-only SW fans, I mean to not use Jaina Solo or Ben Skywalker or even Mara Jade as characters for the Sequels or even any planets, droids, vehicles, weapons, organizations from the EU/TCW in the films to appeal/help heal the wounds that the fans would later receive from having both those products discontinued and only revived for views/money to be made is quite gut wrenching.

            They had the opportunity to really make a movie that can appeal to any casual movie goer TO the hardcore fans, despite Matt Martin’s insistence that it was impossible, it never was, nor never will be.

            They only took chances to appeal to the Movie Only fans, a little to OOT Purists (the new boss sure don’t want the Original Versions of the OT released alongside the Special Editions) and Reylos/Daivers have earned the ire of longtime, adult fans from even the hypocritical, childish, ignorant Backstabbers from the TFN to even their own, who despite the whining and crying, haven’t really kicked down the threats/ IRL stalking/physical confrontations Adam Driver, Daisy Ridley and their retrospective loved ones, Agents, Hairstylists, Bodyguards all had to put up with that the useless, ignorant MSM and even the “nerd culture/Sci-Fi/Fantasy fandom/fan community” has done a terrible job of really kicking down on.

            Idk about you, Alexrd, yet I feel the Sequel Trilogy should have been made back in the late 80s/Early 90s for SW. With the internet where it was back then, without Social Media/Smart Phones and if the Thrawn Trilogy/Dark Empire books/comics being released and having a Sequel Trilogy greenlit then and likely contradicting those film franchise spinoff merchandise I’d be more at peace, especially if the Darth Vader’s grandchildren were even better written, well-rounded, distinctive, yet flawed like possibly with the Lucas envisioned Kira along with Skyler/Sam/Jedi Killer from the GL Sequel Trilogy treatments (assuming they were written in detail and where already written out as three dimensional characters.)

            Back when Hamill and Fisher where in better shape than in the early 2010s, than now where it comes off like those reunion albums/TV Specials to celebrate this and that anniversary of a band/duo/TV Cast for “X” TV Show’s anniversary where no matter the supposed love and care put into it, you get the feeling that the Company had too much of a unnecessary hand in it’s creation.

            I was even OK with Star Wars just being the Saga Films, Ep. 1-6, certain TCW episodes, certain EU material and that’s that, no unnecessary film/TV projects being greenlit for the company like how Back To The Future is just 3 great films, a video game, a harmless TV show, THX 1138 has no sequel or prequel film or TV show greenlit to capitalize on it’s success, nor Silent Running, Adventures Of Buckaroo Banzai, Outland, Looker, Boorman’s Point Blank and “Excalibur”.

            Sometimes 1-2 or 3 films is simply, enough along with passionate, original TV and spinoff books, comics, video games being produced with passion and working well into the “idea/theme” of the general TV/Film/Comic/Book fictional franchise.

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            • The sequel trilogy was George’s idea, but the sequel trilogy that ended up being made is not, never was and never will be. Just like it’s ridiculous to blame George for what Disney decided to do on their sequel trilogy, it’s ridiculous to say that Disney’s Han Solo was George’s idea. It wasn’t. George had an Han Solo spin-off movie in development, but that’s not the Han Solo movie that Disney ended up making. The faults of the movie are on Disney, just like the merits would be (if there were any).

              P.S: The concept of the 12-episode saga was abandoned in the 1980s. That ceased to exist once the story for TESB was decided. Likewise, the story of the sequel trilogy that George was making was a very recent development (something he started developing around the beginning of this decade).

              Like

        • Personally, I think Lucas failed the fans the minute he sold out to Disney. Yes, he’s ultimately the reason Disney’s ruining it. Not like he couldn’t have given it to his kids, or even Dave Filoni, instead of selling to Disney, even if he WAS affected by The People vs. George Lucas (not that I buy that as a reason). But no… he had to basically commit tax avoision regarding tax hikes he himself had practically BEGGED Obama to implement in various interviews. I was willing to forgive Lucas on a whole lot of things, heck, even the fact that he tricked people into rooting for the Vietcong, but I’m sure as heck not going to forgive him for selling out to Disney. As far as I’m concerned, he deserved to have his planned sequel trilogy canned as a result.

          As far as Palpatine coming back, maybe if Chuck Wendig didn’t completely screw up Palpatine with that stupid “Operation Cinder” nonsense, I’d agree he shouldn’t have come back. Unfortunately, thanks to that petulant SJW manchild Wendig basically making Palpatine into a really crass Hitler expy who basically blew up the galaxy post-mortem in what amounted to a massive temper tantrum over being prematurely killed, which completely contradicts the fact that Palpatine, I don’t know, tried to goad Luke, and Anakin before him, into turning to the Dark Side by murdering him in cold blood, I’d rather take a Palpatine revival if it at least allowed for a mulligan for that form of character assassination against him (and I’m doubtful the Chosen One prophecy would have allowed for Vader to just get the galaxy indirectly detonated as a result of his sacrifice. I’d argue that ruined Vader’s character arc even worse).

          Besides, using The Son wouldn’t have made sense either (arguably less sense than Palpatine coming back, since at least Palpatine coming back had precedence under Legends, and under Lucas’s direction, no less), especially when, last I checked, The Son was supposed to be deader than a doornail in the conclusion of that arc. They were better off using Abaloth, especially when the last event in Legends before the Legacy series WAS Luke trying to hunt down the Dagger of Mortis to finish Abaloth off for good.

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            • Actually, if truly no one cared, those statements wouldn’t have been uttered at ALL by people besides me, heck, even me for that matter. Just because YOU don’t care about those points doesn’t mean no one does.

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  2. Put me in the “attempt to protect Abrams’ reputation” camp. I wouldn’t be surprised if there is some truth to it, but either way- Abrams didn’t take his name off the film before release did he? It’s not directed by Alan Smithee, right? So who cares?

    A public liar- who has made work I loathe and who has directly insulted the Star Wars fanbase- may or may not have been shafted by The Company, yet is still playing the corporate game and putting a happy face on the situation.

    Am I supposed to remotely care?

    Liked by 3 people

    • Can he even take his name off from it? Look at the recent example of what happened with Zack Snyder and Justice League. It’s a completely different movie from the one he made yet they put his name on it. Not that I think Abrams made a movie that different from what was released, but as far as his name being on it, who knows what studios stipulate on binding contracts… No wonder Lucas sought and fought for his independence ASAP.

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  3. Many parts of this seem fake, clearly someone from Bad Robot trying to deflect blame.

    – “Abrams jumpstarting that franchise with something like a successful, audience-pleasing Superman movie makes them nervous. Their goal is to make JJ look bad to potential investors/shareholders.” Really? They’re going to kneecap one of their biggest franchises in SW, so they can hurt the director who may make DC compete better against the MCU, even though they didn’t trust him with creative control of the ST?

    – “The final result is a mix of that story and the story told by Disney and whoever they tried to impress (‘certainly not the fans’).” Yeah, who the hell would that be?

    I can completely believe that it was a clusterfuck behind the scenes, with lots of executive meddling, as that’s how you end up with such a disjointed movie. But honestly, many of these decisions should have been taken away from JJ, like cutting the Rose and earlier lesbian hand-holding scenes or that godawful FinnPoe BS. The OT had almost no sexual elements, just some occasional flirting, and they want to make this all about gay coupling.

    I’m sure he had some good ideas that they didn’t like too, like Babu Frik or whatever, but it sounds like there’s plenty of blame to go around.

    Liked by 1 person

  4. So the way everything stands now we have Disney/KK saying no to JJ and Chris and George on having the Son of Mortis be the main villain in the middle of production around August 2018. And Disney pushing for rewrites and an overly fan service movie instead. And apparently KK pushed for Palpatine to come back as part of that. Then you have around Sept 2019 George being asked back to help because what they had was terrible. Following that you have 3 months of desperate reshoots and many different cuts of the film. Georges ideas were for a third time basically thrown away. And in the end we have a Iger/Horn/JJ/KK mess that had unqualified executives hacking it up a few weeks before release to achieve various agendas, non of which have anything to do with telling a good story. Sounds 100% believable to me, but even if all of it’s true it still doesn’t fully excuse JJ’s career of hackery. Ultimately JJ still has to be held accountable for his choices and the positions he puts himself in.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Well, derp da diddily dee derp dee dumb. Sorry, Itchy. You posted the saltierthancrwit one, obvs. But it seems there was another on starwarsspeculation earlier, my bad.

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      • It was called “Here to Spill the Tea on IX AMA.” It was there early this AM EST. Still had it loaded on my phone. User and post contents have been deleted, though. Guess that is not a good sign. It did not seem to contradict but enhance the saltierthancrait gossip above. The replies are still in the thread, Itchy, so you’d still be able to peruse those for quotes.

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  5. It’s probably true, cause most of these new info also appeared in JediPaxis’ early leaks:
    – “physical/visible” Force ghosts
    – training operning
    – Jannah being Lando’s daughter etc.

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  7. Even if JJ got his way, it doesn’t matter. It’s still a crap story with crap characters. By having Palpatine return retroactively defeats Luke’s sacrifice and Anikin’s redemption. Rey is still Mary Sue and Star Wars cannon is ruined. The only way out is to decannonize this.

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    • Well, to be fair, Palpatine coming back in itself didn’t really negate either of those things (if it didn’t in Legends with Dark Empire, I’m doubtful it will in the Canon trilogy). But it certainly put a hamper in it especially given some of Palpatine’s gloating in the film from what I heard.

      Of course, then again, I kind of wanted Palpatine to come back after the gross disservice and disrespect he got in that awful Aftermath trilogy with Operation Cinder/the Contingency. I’m sorry, but you REALLY expect me to believe Palpatine would deliberately engineer not only the downfall of his empire, but also nearly blow up the galaxy as a Kuja-style post-mortem temper tantrum? PALPATINE?! AKA, THE SAME GUY WHO TRIED TO GOAD ANAKIN AND LUKE INTO KILLING HIM IN COLD BLOOD JUST TO GET THEM TO TURN TO THE DARK SIDE?! Not to mention that was an EXTREMELY and uncharacteristically sloppy manner for Palpatine (that’s more Vladimir Lenin and Adolf Hitler’s calling card, particularly their actions with the Bolshevik coup after losing elections and Operation Nero, respectively). And heck, Aftermath arguably worsened Vader’s redemption and Chosen One status by effectively implying that his actions in saving Luke nearly doomed the galaxy, which I’m doubtful Lucas EVER envisioned when making Vader sacrifice himself to save Luke from the Emperor. I can tell you this much: As bad as the Sequel Trilogy was, Wendig’s Aftermath trilogy was arguably WORSE.

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  8. If this is true then we know why Pablo went and hid from fans like a chicken. In other news his TROS Visual Dictionary book is *already* reduced – film is still in the goddamned cinema!!

    Liked by 1 person

    • A simple explanation as to why Hidago hid goes like this. Twitter served a purpose for him, but by its nature it had annoyances. When he discovered how he could remove the annoyances, he solved his problems in one swell foop.

      Essentially he wanted a private Facebook group by way of twitter and he finally figured out how to make it happen.

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  9. This read a lot like “I know someone who said they know someone who said this.” and trying to make Abrams look like the victim here.

    Still, corporate behind the scenes shenanigans concerning back-stabbing, favor currying, blame passing, conflicts of interest, hurt feelings and agendas sounds spot on.

    Like

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  11. “The scene where the tie fighters are chasing them through the iceberg – those corridors were inspired by a video game JJ used to play in the 90s called Rebel Assault 2 (the third level in the game with the tunnels on Endor specifically).”

    Huh? I know RA II pretty well and the third level is the Millennium Falcon level and it sure don’t take place on Endor.

    Like

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